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money. and the average person needs that $2,000 in his pocket to drive the economy. saying that tax breaks for the rich drive consumers lower down to spend is like saying you could start your car by pouring gasoline on the hood. there's no proof, there's no factual data to support it. it's completely a sham to say that. >> and he's a business owner. we need more members of congress to sound like that. if the president is trying to achieve solidarity on raising the top tax rate, these are the voices that can come through for them with that message in a big way. an owner of an automobile supply company says she supports the plan even if it means her own personal rates will go up. . >> i would have higher tax rates, but r more important and more crucial, the middle class would be spending about $3,000 more. >> harry reid kept the focus on the president's winning campaign message of letting the tax cuts expire on incomes over $250,000 a year. >> the people who have done so well during this difficult time with the economy, the richest of the rich are going to have to pay a little more to
it hurts the economy and i think most economists that i respect believe that but throughout my career i v gone to the floor time after time on the appropriations bills and the farm bills that have the important earmarks, the terrible and egregious subsidies which i have opposed all along and i am sure grower has been well aware of that. >>neil: he has in conversations, he has said that but what concerns him is that republicans seem to be running around with the tail between their leg after the election and acquiescing on revenues and letting the democrats stream roll them and he says they will pay in two years. do you feel threatened? >>guest: will, republicans have to be for some things and we need to be for things and for spending cuts. we need to be for entitlement reform. that has to be done if we are ever going to be serious about this debt issue, i don't think we should disrespect grover norquist any more than i believe we should disrespect the heritage foundation or any others. i respect them. we just don't always agree. >>neil: what he is saying, senator, he says that there is muc
't think that raising tax rates is something that's good for this economy, that will help grow jobs. and so what we have said is there are ways for the federal government to have more revenue if we grow this economy and engage in tax reforms. >> every economist i respect says if you raise tax rates at this time -- in fact the president said that a couple years ago -- that it harms the economy. we're trying to help the economy. and so unless i can be convinced that raising tax rates will be beneficial, then obviously i think there's reason and grounds for my position. >> the truth is this country does not need to go through this fiscal cliff, which is fundamentally a huge tax increase and very little spending cuts. we're favoring a huge automatic tax increase that needs to be changed. >> bottom line we can't go off the fiscal cliff. democrats have harry reid. we have mitch mcconnell. get them in the room. no one gets all they want. if reagan and o'neill could do it, obama and boehner should be able to do it. >> it's the right approach, the one most beneficial for our economy, that protects t
newshour has been provided by: moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: washington's struggle to avoid going off the "fiscal cliff" resumed in earnest today. the president moved to draw on his reelection victory for new clout with congress. the goal: a sweeping deficit agreement to avert $650 billion in spending cuts and tax increases at the start of 2013. from the white house came word that president obama will try to build public pressure on congress to raise taxes on the wealthy and prevent tax hikes for everyone else. white house spokesman jay carney. >> well, the president believes very strongly that the american people matter in this debate. because this debate is about t
, investors in the financial markets and the real economy, you need sustainability and credibility. the problem with the european union for the time being is that decisionmaking is not sustainable. the united states has a common economic area with a common currency. one central bank, one parliament, and one government. the european union has an economic area with one currency, one central bank, and 17 governments in the eurozone. how the fine trust when you have every day after the decision making, another government -- how you can find an investor going to greece, today you invest in euros. tomorrow, the currency of greece, nobody knows. what kind of investment will go to greece. the biggest problem is not to fill the gap in the public coffers of greece. my eyes, it is a credit crunch in some of the countries. i met the chairman of the greek chamber of commerce when i was there and he'd tell me we have about 300 small and middle sized companies. ferry transport is a very important element of the greek economy. in the health-care system, whatever. most of the jobs are created in sm
that could very well damage the economy. but the air of compromise among some notable republicans is definitely grabbing attention. the republicans' comments quickly caught fire. >> i will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country, only if democrats will do entitlement reform. >> a pledge you signed 20 years ago, 18 years ago is for that congress. the world has changed and the economic situation is different. >> i'm not obligated on the pledge. i made tennesseans aware, i was just elected, that the only thing i'm monitoring is the oath that i take when i serve when i'm sworn in this january. >> reporter: gop lawmakers bluntly stating to alert the fiscal cliff, they're ready to break from grover norquist and the pledge he's got most republicans to sign to never raise taxes. norquist waste nod time hitting back on cnn's s"starting point" >> it doesn't pass the laugh test. if you want to go to your voters and say, i promised you this and i'm breaking that problem, you can have that conversation with them. but you don't have an argument with me. you've made a c
the dangers of going over the fiscal cliff and what that means for our economy, that there's too much stubbornness in congress, that we can't even agree on giving middle-class families a tax cut, then middle-class families are all going to end up having a big tax hike. that's going to be a pretty rude shock for them, and i suspect will have a big impact on the holiday shopping season, which in turn will have an impact on business planning and hiring, and we can go back into a recession. >> sean: republicans hate big beared and santa claus. don't buy this hype, such as letting the bush cuts expire, are not the answer to tackling this deficit. in fact, during the 2012 fiscal year the federal government cost $9.7 billion to run each and every day, but the additional revenue from letting the bush tax cuts expire only amounts to around $82 billion a year, meaning the government would be funded for a whopping 8.5 days if in fact the president wins this fight. sadly the real reason we've reached this point is because our elected representatives simply have no idea how to stop spending your m
return to a normal economy that returns about 18.5%, that would increase revenue an additional over $400 billion per year, that's $750 billion of revenue per year through economic growth. and the president, his proposal would raise 1/10 of that but would put at risk the economic growth and that $750 billion. so -- >> sir, with all due respect, though -- >> counterproductive. >> that's an answer to the question. there's nothing you see over the next 35 days that would have you break that pledge with grover norquist? >> no, because raising taxes harms the economic growth. you get ten times the revenue by economic growth rather than punishing success. and, again, all of us are saying president obama, show us your plan for restraining the size of government, that's the main problem. again, his revenue proposal would raise $68 billion when we have over $1 trillion worth of deficit. where's the other $1 trillion in his balance plan? mr. president, show us your plan. >> sir, one thing, mitch mcconnell has said that revenue is on the table as long as entitlements would be on the table. conductin
by the federal open market committee to support the economy. in addition, i will discuss important economic challenges our country faces as we close out 2012 and move into 2013, in particular the challenge of putting federal government finances on a sustainable path and the longer run while avoiding actions that would endanger the economic recovery in the near term. the economy is continuing to recover from the financial crisis and recession, but the pace of the recovery has been slower than fomc participants and others had hoped or anticipated when i spoke here last, three years ago. indeed, since the recession trough in 2009, growth in real gdp has averaged only a little more than 2% per year. similarly, the job market has improved over the past three years, but at a slow pace. the unemployment rate, which peaked at 10% in the fall of 2009, has since come down 2%, to just below 8%. this is a welcome decline, but it has taken a long time to achieve the progress, and the unemployment level is still well above its level prior to the onset of the recession and the level that our colleagues an
families should go up. it would be bad for the economy. it would be bad for those families. in fact, it would be bad for the world economy. and so i think it's very important that we get that resolved. and i am very open to a fair and balanced approach. >> the president met with middle class tax payers today, urging them to employ twitter hash tag my y2k, telling congress this is too important for them to screw it up. >> today i'm asking congress to listen to the people who sent us here to serve. i'm asking americans all across the country to make your voice heard. it's too important for washington to screw this up. >> and a new survey shows the president has the public on board in a new washington post poll, 60% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000. a healthy majority. indeed, even some republicans appear to be under sway, by the force of reason. >> in my view, we all agree we're not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of this discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases. try to continue to work h
to destroy the economy. no one in their right mind is going to allow that kind of increase to devastate the economy. lou: that's a good point. it's interesting that no one is talking about the fact that individual tax payment, 26% of the bush tax cuts over the past two years, the answer here is this. i just want to see everybody be happy. let me turn to benghazi. there is a palpable sense in washington dc right now. i don't believe the congress has the strength or the tools to actually penetrate the veil of denial and secrecy and opaqueness that is this administration and what it has done. now, when you think this is? >> the attorney general has to do this. lou: can you really see eric holder doing that? saying that we will investigate ourselves? >> if he doesn't do an independent investigation, you have the very people who have floated the idea of prosecuting general petraeus, there are all kinds of things they might do to him. there is all kinds of pressure that can be brought about. lou: are you saying that you don't think, i was speaking earlier with. rinsing, you don't think it's a
.s. economy and millions of american families have been struggling with unemployment and underemployment, net sales for the walton family has grown more than $70 billion since the start of the great recession. now, a lot of those families in the bottom half struggling with underemployment are in fact walmart workers. a leaked internal document revealed that the base pay at the sam's club stores can be as low as $8 an hour. that's a mere $16,000 a year. with wage increases in drips and drabs as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour. one study found that walmart employees in california were nearly 40% more likely to use public assistance to make ends meet. costing the state's taxpayers $86 million annually. that means people with jobs in that state are still having to turn to the public safety net to get by. because working at walmart is not sustainable employment. if walmart became the standard across all retailers in california, taxpayers would have to subsidize their fellow workers with an additional $410 million a year. yet according to a study by the policy development and advocacy administration
. >> it is doing it now with china and japan. you have to of the biggest economies in the world in a nightmare situation that raises the fundamental question and up in in this myth that economics draws people together. part of the title today is "mischief or miscalculation?" during the cold war, you could have 17 different spheres of contact with the soviets and it two blew up, you could still have 15 others. there was a lot of heavy investment in figuring out how to court made, communicate, due to escalation and talk if things got bad. in this era, when i look at the amount of time -- the obama administration more so than the bush administration, when officials meet throughout the region, and the discussion attempt to correlate with china, there seems to be a lot of effort to try to coordinate. jim steinberg was the fourth member of this panel, looking at the island dispute and said, they were shocked and surprised by the level of miscommunication, miss assessment, and the dangers of that between china and japan. it raises the question of whether or not -- i agree. i know china wants respect
, we will ask a business expert what fewer shoppers means for the overall economy. rick: shifting gears now overseas, the hamas terrorist group is accusing israel of breaking the ceasefire rules agreed to only a couple of days ago, two days after a truce was reached along the israel/gaza border. the shooting death of a palestinian man today could threaten the already-fragile agreement. conor powell is live in jerusalem with the very latest. >> reporter: well, rick, given that the level of trust between israel and hamas is so low, expectations for this ceasefire were even lower. but it appears to have passed its first major hurdle. earlier today several hundred palestinians went to the border between gaza and israel, some reportedly there to check on land across the border in israel, others were, no doubt, hamas sympathizers testing the ceasefire. but as israeli trooped told them to back off from the border area, they refused, and israeli troops opens fire killing one palestinian. both israel and hamas accused the other ofhe ceasefire agreement, but neither side took steps to escal
obama term in office? the economy, the fiscal cliff talks, the president's priorities in the next four years. our roundtable is here. david brooks of "the new york times." msnbc's reverend al sharpton. former ceo of hewlett-packard carly fiorina >> historian and film maker ken burns. and nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. and we'll hear from new york congressman, gregory meeks, as we check in on some of the hardest-hit victims of hurricane sandy and see how they offered thanks this weekend while surrounded by destruction. >>> from nbc news in washington, the world's longest-running television program, this is "meet the press." with david gregory. >>> president obama doing his part for the economy over the weekend out holiday shopping as part of small business saturday, picking up several children's book at an independent bookstore in arlington. >>> meanwhile, uncertainty in the middle east. more clashes in egypt over the weekend as police use tear gas this morning to disburse protesters in cairo. i want to start there. we have "new york times" columnist david broo
brotherhood led egyptian government. it is strangling in an economy that is simply not working. the united states and europe have the trump cards in this. is that an incorrect statement in your judgment? >> yes, because the imf still has already been signed. he has that credit line out there. i think what's going on in egypt is that there is a struggle between -- lou: actually, this deal was reached today. they have not been funded. lou: but the deal is done. acquiescence to judgment and reason. and necessary component. >> as you correctly pointed out that europeans will not put pressure on egypt. he will get his money from the imf. the -- lou: wait a minute. let me interject. i truly believe that it is of fair statement to say, the united states will have its will with the imf and what it does in this instance. am i wrong? >> well, we will see in a couple of weeks. i think the real struggle here is between morrissey and his ideological instincts on the one hand and elements of the egyptian security structure, the military and the intelligence service on the other. despite his best efforts
, we had huge surpluses because of the strong economy over the 1990's and deficit-reduction plans put in place over the 1990's. the government had the choice to spend that on programs, or returned it to tax payers, and the bush administration decided to return the money to taxpayers. over the following year's tax rates were lower. it was renewed in 2010 in a tax deal between president obama and congressional republicans at a time when the economy was weak and the feeling was they could not take an increase in taxes. host: what was the desired effect and did it happen? he called the desired effect was to give people more of their income back, and that happened, as wealthy people got more income back, more moderate income earners got some back. one of the questions is how it effects economic growth, and it is an unresolved area of economic research. did it did help the economy -- did it help the economy? it is hard to say. we had a good economy in the 2000's before the crisis. now we have a huge crisis. on balance, it probably did not help that much. host: can you calculate if jobs were
at this time, in fact, the president even said a couple of years ago, it harms the economy. we are trying to help the economy. and, so, unless i can be convinced that raising tax rates will be beneficial, then obviously i think there's reason and ground for my position. but, i also believe that we can and must get an agreement, otherwise i think first of all, the markets are going to start reacting. >> chris: we'll talk about that in the next segment, and i think it is a real issue. finally, let's talk about the g.o.p. republicans, i don't have to tell you, had a really rough night on election night. and let's look at the break down of some of the numbers. you lost unmarried women by 36 points, hispanics, by 44 points. young people, by 23 points. does your party need to change, especially, with those groups, on social issues like same sex marriage and immigration reform? >> i think we have to have a bigger tent. no doubt about it. and, obviously we have to do immigration reform. there is no doubt whatsoever that the demographics are not on our side. and, we are going to have to give a muc
. energy is the lifeblood of a thriving economy and society. our future in energy provides the opportunity to significantly assist us in exiting our economic difficulties with jobs and new opportunities in abundance. we need reliable, affordable, and environmentally responsible in terms of supply. i say it is an important day because i believe we find ourselves at a unique point in history at the confluence of urgency and opportunity to them that we should make no mistake about it. -- and opportunity. we should make no mistake about it. if you examine the national intelligence council's global trends 2025 report, you'll find the word "energy" is one of the most repeated factors driving global security over the next 10 to 15 years. this means that achieving well conceived long term objectives depends on visionary action. the defining feature is about being pro-active. not reactive. this demands a sense of urgency and collegiality among the global community them back for the u.s., the united states, it is another critical challenge for our leadership responsibilities the world over. the prop
say that the president proposed $1.6 trillion in new revenue? he wants to destroy the economy? come on. who in their right mind will allow that kind of increase to devastate the economy. it will not be hostess going out of business. >> lou: that is a good point and it is interesting, no one is talking about the fact that individual tax payments, taxpayer payments, internal revenue service, receipts from those taxpayers have risen 26% under the bush tax cuts, over the past two years which tells us that the answer here is growth. >> that's right. >> lou: i'm a simple fellow and i'd like to see everybody start talking to each other. let me turn to benghazi, because, the special prosecutor. there is a sense of hopelessness that is palpable in washington, d.c., right now. because, i don't believe the congress feels that it has the strength or the tools to actually penetrate the veil of denial and secrecy and opaqueness that is the administration, when it comes to what it has done. witness the last nine weeks. you are calling for a special prosecutor, and the fellow who has to do that work f
the economy going over the fiscal cliff. no mystery what the issues areu. the democrats know, republicans know and so does president obama. entitlements are pushing the country toward financial ruin. here is what the president said in 2010. >> the major driver of the long-term liabilities is medicare, medicaid and healthcare spending. nothing comes close. social security we could probably fix the same way tip o'neil and ronald reagan sat down together and we could figure something out. that is manageable. medicare and medicaid, massive problems down the road. that's where, that is what our children have to worry about. >> dana: here we are, two years later and still no plan. on the left in congress refusing to deal with that simple reality. vermont senator bernie sanders caucuses with the democrats. take a listen. >> i get nervous when i hear the president and others continue to talk about quote/unquote, entitlement reform. which is just another cut for medicaid and medicare and social security. >> eric: brian, start with you, today. >> dana: you look surprised. >> brian: i am. yet honored. >>
to then quickly craft a legislative deal that can stop the damage to the economy that would occur if we went off the cliff and stayed off the cliff. john boehner recognizes that the fiscal cliff is the president's leverage, but boehner believes he has leverage, too. politico reported this morning president barack obama made a demand of how john boehner near the end of their first white house meeting on the fiscal cliff, raised the debt limit before year's end. boehner responded, quote, there is a price for everything. boehner told president obama at the white house that the debt limit increase is quote my leverage. although he added that he's flexible on when it should be done. senator durbin said today that raising the debt ceiling must be part of any deal with republicans. >> i also think that the president isn't going to sign off on any agreement that doesn't include some certainty as to budgets, appropriations, dealing with our debt ceiling. we're not going to find ourselves with some big party celebrating in february and then turn around and march and have another doomsday scenario with the
: ♪ ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> and by the bill and melinda gates foundation. dedicated to the idea that all people deserve the chance to live a healthy productive life. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: demonstrations, clashes with the police, and tear gas in tahrir square-- familiar scenes in egypt nearly two years ago that led to the fall of longtime leader hosni mubark. but today, they were aimed at egypt's new leader. in the coastal city of alexandria, opponents set fire to the offices of president mohammed morsi's political party, the muslim brotherhood. there and elsewhere in egypt today, the president's critics and supporters clashed in the streets over his decree yesterday exempting himself from judicial review, and giving him authority to take steps against "threats to the revolution." morsi, egypt'
economy, it would be good for our children's future. and i believe that both parties can agree on a framework that does that in the coming weeks. in fact, my hope is to get this done before christmas. but -- the place where we already have in theory at least complete agreement, right now, is on middle-class taxes. and as i've said before, we have two choices. if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. starting january 1st, every family in america will see their taxes go up. a typical middle-class family of four, would see its income taxes go up by $2200. that's $2200 out of people's pockets. that means less money for buying groceries, less money for filling prescriptions, less money for buying diapers. it means a tougher choice between paying the rent and paying tuition and middle-class families just can't afford that right now. by the way, businesses can't afford it either. yesterday, i sat down with some small business owners who stressed this point. economists predict that if taxes go up on the mi
the most advanced technology to protect our water. billions in the economy. at chevron, if we can't do it right, we won't do it at all. we've got to think long term. we've got to think long term. ♪ >>> we are joined now by our roundtable, andrea mitchell and david brooks. former ceo of hp carly fiorina. al sharpton is here. and we're pleased to have ken burns. his new film "central park five" debuted in new york on friday. and we'll be talking about that. ken, great to see you. hope you all had a great thanksgiving. now we're looking ahead, because things are going to get serious in washington. amid all the holiday parties for the president, he has to try to get a fiscal deal. reverend al, based on what you've heard here today, don't we have to deal with the tax fight first before the president moves on to anything else? and do you sense that republicans are prepared to do that? >> i think we're going to have to deal with the question of where the tax rates go. no question about it. friday before last, the president met with 12 progressive leaders. i was there. the same day he had ju
the entire economy because we're not confident that our guys can govern anymore. people like me just aren't hiring because we're not confident they can do it. >> well, the white house echoed that concern this morning. a new report says failing to act on the president's plan for middle class americans would freeze the economic recovery. obama's plan includes lower taxes on the first $250,000 earned by every american and tweaking the alternative minimum tax. the white house report estimates that consumer spending would fall by $200 million. now that's more than three times what consumers spent just over this entire holiday weekend. there could be a drag on a range of industries from cars and housing to restaurants and supermarkets, if congress can't reach a deal. and look, pocketbook issues are not the only problem here. carl levin, the democratic senator and chair of the armed services committee said automatic cuts to government spending could impact public safety. >> i think you should be worried if you have a defense job and we all ought to be worried whether we are dependent upon other
and the economy. we agree with that. but if your number one priority is jobs and the economy, you don't grow the economy and create jobs by raising taxes on small businesses, the very people who create those jobs. >> greta: white house press secretary today jay carney when asked when the next meeting with congressional members would be, the answer was, quote, it would come at the appropriate time. >> nobody knows what that means. >> greta: that's my point. look, all of you have had a vacation, campaigning, doing that for the last three months. you've been about this fiscal cliff for a year and a half. now the president is going out to do, as you say, campaigning. the press secretary says there will be a meeting between leaders at the appropriate time. the appropriate time seems like pretty much right now. >> well, it is. what you're seeing by the president and democrats is an attempt to run out the clock. i think they think they gain leverage if the pressure builds toward the end of the year. frankly you're hearing a lot of prominent democrats saying we should go over the fiscal cliff and le
will it do to our economy? >> i don't think it will do that much. i think people will assume a solution will be found quite promptly. it's a little like the debt ceiling question. people know -- the rest of the world may think we're idiotic at times but don't think we're going to commit suicide. so i think if -- i hope something gets worked out before january 1st. if it goes a little bit beyond that, i don't think -- >> if it's january 10th -- >> if you guaranteed me that the fiscal cliff, we would go past that, i wouldn't sell a share of stock today. >> you have confidence that in the end they will fix it? >> and that this economy works. >> he is confident of a deal huh? >> he really does. he believes there's a possibility -- he thinks it will take some time. first thing he wants to see is a minimum tax, which they can do now in terms of people who make more than a million dollars, minimum tax you have to pay it before you do the tax reform. too many competing interests to get it done immediately. interesting man. we'll have more from him. >>> to republican politics,
government it will pay for, regardless of the impact on jobs or the economy, or america's standing in the world. these are the ones who have recklessly ignored the fact that we can't keep running trillion dollar deficits every year and throw a tantrum if someone suggests that maybe the taxpayers shouldn't keep subsidizing ever last program washington ever dreamed up. they are reckless and ideological approach threatens our very future. and anyone who is serious about solving the problems we face should ignore all of that starting with the president. megyn: meantime some of the president's supporters unleashed and ad blitz targeting key lawmakers reportedly spending close to $300,000 on an ad buy that talks about increasing taxes but leaving spending alone. here is part of that. >> how do we move our country forward and reduce the deficit, by creating jobs and growing our economy not by cutting programs that families rely on most. megyn: join me now is stu varney, who is host of varney & company. and chris stirewalt. you have all the unions unleashing and ad blitz to target the home
that would avoid that potentially devastating fiscal cliff that is looming over the u.s. economy right now. the president is meeting with small business owners at the white house today. he had a series of meetings with different business leaders over the last week. despite the warnings that the talks are stalling on capitol hill stuart varney joins me now, host of "varney & company" on fox business network. >> good morning, martha. bill:. martha: what are you hearing how this is going? >> it is impasse basically. the republicans said yesterday they accommodated the democrats they will agree to get more money from wealthy people from higher taxes but mitch mcconnell, senate republican leader, he says there has been no similar compromise from the democrats or the president. he says they are still holding out for higher tax rates on the rich and he says the radical left is prescenting the democrats and president and agreeing to serious reform from medicare. martha, i have to tell you. i got new numbers from medicare, from trustees, actually. medicare has to pay out in the future $42 trillion.
to cripple the syrian economy. eight round-trip flights between moscow and damascus delivering more than 200 tons of, quote, bank notes into syria. u.s. and european sanctions include a ban on syrian currency in an attempt to slow the violence that's killed thousands of people. syria and russian officials have so far not responded to the reports. >>> overseas tens of thousands are rallying today in cairo's tahrir square protesting what they view as a blatant power grab by president mohamed horsey. with tensions mounting yesterday, morsi appeared to soften his controversial attempt to award himself near absolute power above the reach of the law. in a vaguely worded statement, morsi spokesman backtracked slightly saying that only acts of sovereignty would be immune from oversight. >>> well, u.s. consumers went big this weekend for small business saturday. millions of holiday shoppers spent a total of $5.5 billion during the third annual local business shopping event. mika spent half of that in the south of france. and that's not even counted in that tally. for more on the holiday shopping seas
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 209 (some duplicates have been removed)